Did Jacob wrestle with the God of the Christians or did he wrestle with a human being?!

 

Christians often evade the story of God's struggle with Jacob according to their book in Genesis, Chapter 32, that Jacob wrestled with a man and did not wrestle with God. Some of them say that he wrestled with an angel. I found among them those who describe those who say that Jacob wrestled with God as infidels, knowing that this is what his fathers said in the past and present, as we will explain. However, due to their ignorance, they are infidels. Before I begin, there are two opinions among their scholars here. The first opinion is that the one who appeared was an angel in the form of a human being, and the second opinion is that the one who appeared was God. The second is correct, as we will explain, God willing.
We will begin, God willing

. The text according to Genesis, Chapter 32:
- Jacob wrestles with God
(22) Then he arose that night, and took his two wives, his two maidservants, and his eleven sons, and crossed the ford of Jabbok.
(23) And he took them and led them across the brook, and he carried away what was his.
(24) And Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until the break of day.
(25) And when he saw that he did not prevail against him, he touched the socket of his thigh, and the socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated as he wrestled with him.
(26) And he said, "Let me go, for the day is breaking." But he said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
(27) And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob."
(28) And he said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed."
(29) And Jacob asked him, saying, “Please tell me your name.” And he said, “Why do you ask my name?” And he blessed him there.
(30) And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”
(31) And the sun rose upon him as he passed Peniel, and he was stricken on his thigh.
(32) Therefore the children of Israel do not eat the sinew of the sciatica which is on the socket of the thigh to this day, because he struck the socket of Jacob’s thigh on the sinew of the sciatica. (Al-Fandik translation)
-Source: http://www.ar*********/ArabicBible/Genesis/32

-And those who said that he was a man argue with the word “wrestled with a man” even though this man is the form that their god took according to the words of their scholars, and even though the rest of the verses indicate that he wrestled with God according to the text, as Jacob said, “Because I
saw God face to face” -and
in the Life translation the text says (because I saw God face to face) -Source: http://www.ar********/ArabicBible/alab/Genesis/32 -And in the Jesuit translation the text says (because I saw God face to face) -Source: http ://www.ar********/ArabicBible/jab/Genesis/32 -And in the English translation NIV the text is as follows: -( . So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”/ Its translation: - . Therefore Jacob called the place Peniel, Saying: “Because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was safe.”) _Source:- http://www.ar*************/ArabicBible/niv/Genesis/32 -And in the translation JPS Tanakh 1917, which is a translation of








The original Hebrew says (31And Jacob called the name of the place cPeniel: 'for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.' 32And the sun rose upon him as he passed over / Translation: - 31And Jacob called the name of the place cPeniel: 'for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.' 32And the sun rose upon him as he passed over)
_Source: - https://biblehub.com/jps/genesis/32.htm
The text is very clear that it acknowledges that he wrestled with God and saw Him face to face, according to his claim / And there is a clear and explicit text in Chapter 35, verse 1, that settles the controversy and its text is: -
- Then God said to Jacob: ((Arise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there, and make there an altar to God, who appeared to you when you fled from the face of your brother Esau)). (Jesuit translation)
Here the Lord commands him to make an altar and remember it He appeared to him when he fled from Esau, which is the story of his struggle with him in chapter 32, and he did not say to him that a human or an angel appeared to him, as the ignorant Christians claim .

- And in the translation of Al-Hayat, the text says, “He who appeared to you
, go up to Bethel and dwell there, and build an altar to God who appeared to you when you were fleeing from your brother Esau.” (Translation of Al-Hayat)
So, O Christian, do you deny your God who says that He appeared to Jacob or appeared to him in the story of the struggle and believe the patchwork of some of your scholars??!!
- But with that, we will take the words and testimony of some Christian scholars who confirm that the one who appeared was God and not a human as some claim. We will begin, God willing: -

First, the testimony of Pope Shenouda himself, who acknowledged that Jacob wrestled with God in reality according to the text, saying: -
God wanted to raise the morale of this fearful person, by showing him that he could wrestle and overcome, so He appeared to him in the form of a human, with whom Jacob could wrestle and overcome. Just like a father caressing his child, showing this child that he can defeat him and he will hatch..! And it seemed that Jacob was strong in wrestling with him, and the owner of the vision asked him to let him go, and Jacob answered: I will not let you go until you bless me. So he blessed him. But he struck him on the hollow of his thigh, so he fainted.

As if God wanted him to rejoice in his victory, but his victory would not be a cause of pride for him. He allowed him to win, and changed his name to Israel, saying to him, “Because you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed” (Gen. 32:22-28). How many times did God appear to this weak person to strengthen him and save him from his fear?

- Source: Reflections on the Lives of Saints Jacob and Joseph, pp. 55, 56.

_Secondly, the testimony of Augustine, Abba Paula, says: -
_ Jacob was in great fear of meeting Esau, and Jacob was alone at night, seeking refuge in God in prayer, so God appeared to him in the form of a human being, wrestling with Him and allowing Jacob to win over Him, in order to make him brave and drive out fear from within him, and in order to teach him that the superiority of strength is God’s, so He dislocated Jacob’s thigh socket. And God said to Jacob, "Let me go, for the dawn has broken." The dawn has come, that is, the time for you, Jacob, to complete your journey. You must return to your caravan to continue your journey to your homeland. The God of light, who made light to illuminate humanity, can never fear the light, but the point is that Jacob and his family complete their journey, not so that they remain afraid of meeting their brothers
. _Source: Answers to the questions of the Book of Genesis.

_Thirdly, the testimony of Nabila Toma says: - "When God said to Jacob, 'Let me go, for the dawn has broken,' this does not mean that he cannot set out, but rather he intended by this to declare Jacob's faith, steadfastness, and clinging to obtain the blessing, and he succeeded in this
_Source:- Previous reference

_Fourth, the most important testimony is the testimony of Saint Hilary, Bishop of Poitiers, one of the fathers of the fourth century. This is a definition of him ( https://st-takla.org/Saints/Coptic-O...tory_1888.html ).

_He says in his book about the Trinity under the title (Jacob’s Struggle Was Not With a Man): -
Be with me now with your believing spirit, O father of fathers, James, the saint and blessed, to wrestle with the poisonous hissing of the serpent of unbelief. Win once again in your wrestling with the man and ask for his blessing once again insistently, because you are strong over him. Why do you plead for what you can ask from your weaker opponent?
Your strong arm has overcome him whose blessing you sought. Your physical victory varies widely with the humility of your soul, and your works (contrast) with your thoughts. He whom you considered weak in your strong grasp of him is a man, but this man is a true God in your eyes, and not a God in name only, but in nature
. It is the blessing of an adopted God that you have asked for, but the blessing of the true God. You have struggled with a man, but you have seen God face to face. What you have seen with the physical eye is far different from what you have seen with the eye of faith. You thought him a weak man, but your soul was saved because it saw God in him. When you struggled, you were Jacob, now you are Israel. Through faith in the blessing you sought after the flesh, for the man is weaker than you because of his suffering in the flesh, but you can perceive God in this weak body according to the sign of his blessing in the spirit. The testimony of the eye does not cloud your faith. His weakness does not lead you astray into neglecting his blessing. Although he is a man, his humanity is no hindrance to his being God, and his identity is no hindrance to his being God. Really, for He is God, He must certainly be real

_ Source: On the Trinity by Saint Hilary / Edition of the Monastery of Saint Anthony / p. 374.

_ We conclude from the words of Saint Hilary that he confirmed that the one who wrestled with Jacob was not a human being, but God, and his words are clear, to the point that this point is arranged in the index of the book called On the Trinity under the title Jacob’s Struggle Was Not with a Human Being. So do we find a Christian who would disbelieve in this saint, Shenouda, and others, and the explicit texts of his book? And I am surprised that he rejects the incarnation of his God and his struggle with Jacob and distorts the number, and at the same time accepts the incarnation of his God and his birth from the womb of a woman and his beating, torture, and crucifixion. By
what logic!!?
How do you denounce Jacob’s struggle with God and evade it, and at the same time believe that your God was beaten, crucified, naked, and born before that from the womb of a woman? What is wrong with
you? How do you judge!?

First: - The Jewish tradition and interpretations (which do not recognize the idea of ​​incarnation, nor the crucified one as Messiah, Redeemer and Savior) are not binding on the Muslim side.




Second: - If the wretched missionary blindly trusts every word contained in the Jewish writings, then he must accept - as stated in the Talmud - that his god is the product of a sinful relationship between the Mother of Light and a Roman soldier named Pandira!

Third: - The wretched, desperate missionary has no need to cling to Jewish thought. The writings of the priests and pastors in the most famous Christian site, Thekla, came clear, explicit and do not allow for an iota of doubt regarding the identity of the one whom the Prophet Jacob defeated during the fight!

quote

Years with People's Emails!
Questions about the Bible
God's Appearances in the Old Testament
The Lord's Appearance to Jacob , He appeared in human form at Peniel: "And a man wrestled with him until the breaking of the day" (Genesis 32:24), "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, ' For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved '" (Genesis 32:30). Jacob later spoke to his son Joseph about this matter and said, "God Almighty appeared to me in Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me" (Genesis 48:3).

Source

quote

The Book of Christ, the Desire of Generations: An Orthodox Perspective - Anba Bishoy
Chapter One: The Appearances of the Lord Christ in the Old Testament
Whenever the Lord appeared in the Old Testament, they were appearances of the Only-Begotten Son prior to His incarnation in the fullness of time from the Virgin Mary. The One who appeared to our father Abraham with the two angels at the Oaks of Mamre was the Lord Christ, but that was before the incarnation. Likewise, the One who appeared to our father Jacob at the ford of the Jabbok in the form of a man and wrestled with him until dawn, then blessed him and said to him, “Why do you ask after My name?” (Gen. 32:29) was also the Lord Christ before the incarnation.

Source




Here the adventure of the church boy has ended and been buried!



Stay safe.

@kufrcleaner drafts

     

Attached images

 

Abba Bishoy, speaking with the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit, throws a stone at the church boy!




We read from the book:


Appearances of the Only Begotten Son in the Old Testament:

quote

Why did the Jews not acknowledge until this moment that the Son of God the Word appeared in the Old Testament?
The Apostle Paul explained this point by saying that there was a veil over the eyes of the Jews. He borrowed the incident of the Prophet Moses that was mentioned in the Book of Exodus when Moses came down from the mountain after seeing God and speaking with Him, so he wrote: “And Aaron and all the children of Israel looked at Moses, and behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. And it came to pass, when Moses had finished speaking with them, that he put a veil over his face. And when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with Him, he took off the veil, until he came out; and then he went out and spoke to the children of Israel what he commanded. And when the children of Israel saw Moses’ face that his skin shone, Moses put the veil back on his face until he went in to speak with Him” (Exodus 34:30-35).
As long as Moses was speaking with God, he would remove the veil from his face, and when he returned to speak to the children of Israel, he would put the veil back on. The Apostle Paul borrowed this issue and said that to this day the children of Israel still have a veil on their faces, so they do not see the glory that the Lord declared in the books of the Holy Scriptures about the Lord Christ, who is the image and glory of God.
With the help of the Lord, through dialogue with them, we are trying to lift the veil as much as possible without attacking their beliefs, but to glorify the name of the Lord forever. Amen.

quote

Why do they not believe that God appeared in the flesh?


The Jews demanded the death penalty for Jesus Christ because he said that he was the Son of God. In the Gospel of John it says: “Pilate said to them, ‘You take him and crucify him, for I find no fault in him.’ The Jews answered him, ‘We have a law, and according to our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God’” (John 19:7). Just because Jesus said that he was the Son of God, they thought he deserved death. The Jews had also previously answered him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone you, but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God” (John 10:33). Just because he appeared in human form, they considered it blasphemous for him to say that he was the Son of God. When he healed the paralytic at the Pool of Bethesda on a Sabbath, St. John the Evangelist wrote: “For this reason the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath but also said that God was his own Father, making himself equal with God” (John 5:18).
The idea that God has a son, and that this son is a human being, is an idea that is completely rejected by the Jews. Let us leave the New Testament because they do not believe in it, and let us ask them from the Old Testament: Do you not believe that God has a son and that this son will be born of a virgin as it is written in the Book of Isaiah: “Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (Isaiah 7:14)? Do you not believe that this son who will be born incarnate of the virgin is the Word of God and his only begotten Son, born of him spiritually before all ages? I demand an answer from them...
They considered that the worst accusation that could be directed at a person is to say about himself that he is the Son of God, or that he is God manifest in the flesh.
During the trial of Jesus before the Jewish council, they discussed this point with him. The book says: “Then the high priest asked him again, ‘Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?’ And Jesus said, ‘I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.’ Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, ‘What further need have we of witnesses? You have heard the blasphemies. What do you think?’ So they all condemned him as deserving of death” (Mark 14:61-64). The phrase “Son of the Blessed” means the Son of God... and “at the right hand of power” means at the right hand of the Father.
So the official reason for which he was condemned to death was that he said he was the Son of God, in addition to other motives such as envy, jealousy, and others.
Why do they not accept the idea of ​​God appearing in human form? If the Old Testament is full of such a thing , why do they not accept it?

quote

- Jacob wrestles with a man until dawn


This appearance is very important ... and needs to be paused . The Bible says about Jacob, the father of the fathers, "And a man wrestled with him until the break of dawn" (Genesis 32:24).
Jacob was returning after twenty years of fleeing from his brother Esau, who had taken his birthright and blessing from him. Esau wanted to kill him, but his parents told him to go to your uncle Laban and take a wife from his daughters. Jacob did so and stayed there twenty years. When he returned, he was afraid of his brother Esau, so he was praying while watching (see Gen. 32:9-12). Then a man appeared to him, began to wrestle with him, and continued to wrestle with him all night. "And when he saw that he did not prevail against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; and Jacob's hip socket was dislocated as he wrestled with him. And he said, Let me go, for the day is breaking. But he said, I will not let you go, unless you bless me." And he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." And he said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed" (Gen. 32:25-28). Jacob means "pursuer" because when Jacob was born, he was holding the heel of his twin brother Esau. So he changed his name from Jacob to Israel, and Israel means "prince of God."
"And Jacob asked, and said, Tell me thy name. And he said unto him, Why askest thou my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, For I have seen God (Elohim) face to face, and my life is preserved. And the sun rose upon him as he passed over Peniel, and he bowed his thigh" (Gen. 32:29-31).
This happened in the area of ​​the ford of the Jabbok. He crossed from the side of Iraq to the side of Syria and the southern lands, that is, the regions of Lebanon and its south. He crossed from the north to the south, and that is why the children of Israel are called the children of Eber, first because one of the fathers of Abraham was named Eber, and at the same time they are called Hebrews because they crossed, whether in relation to Eber or in relation to the crossing.
Of course, the events that concern us are that Jacob "wrestled with a man," and at the end he said, "I have seen God face to face." The Jews said to the Lord Christ, "For a good work we are not stoning thee, but for blasphemy, and because thou, being a man, makest thyself God" (John 10:33). So what do the Jews say about this position that a man wrestled with Jacob and Jacob said, “I saw God face to face, and my life was spared.” In all of this, God was preparing for His incarnation and appearance in the form of a human being in the New Testament.

quote

How did God allow Jacob to defeat Him in wrestling?


Notice that Jacob did not defeat Him to the end. In the end, He dislocated his thigh bone and could have ended his life if He wanted to. This situation, of course, has many meanings. Let us take the simple meaning first: If you notice a father playing with his children or training them in wrestling, for example, at first he is not too harsh, and does not let his young son be defeated, but rather gives him a chance to win. We have all seen that between a father and his children. In addition, lest we think that Jacob is stronger than God, God showed that He is stronger. But on the one hand, He gave him the impression that he was victorious, and on the other hand, He made him aware that this victory does not mean that He is stronger than God. God wanted to encourage him because he was afraid of his brother Esau, so He wanted to give him the impression that He is able and said to him, “I have struggled with God and with men, and have overcome.” Do not be afraid, for you are able. But do not think that this is by your own strength. If you do not rely on My help, you will perish. Therefore, He stripped him of his thigh so that he would know that the face of God goes before him, as He said to Moses, “My face goes before you, and I will give you rest.” This means that no man will stand before you to harm you, and My strength is made perfect in weakness. The important thing is that your heart is strong from within. So the first victory was so that his heart would be strengthened, while the second blow was so that he would not rely on his own strength.
The deeper theological aspect of this subject - if I may say so - is that even though Jacob was loved by God as a person, and he was the father of the fathers, and a great saint, we must not forget that from his descendants come the people of Israel who will crucify the Lord Christ. This story contains the spirit of prophecy and a symbol. He will surrender himself to them and let them do whatever they want to him, and thus it is as if Israel has triumphed over the incarnate Christ, God. Then after that, He strikes them a blow by His resurrection from the dead, stripping their thigh.

To read and download from the Christian source: please click her

In a desperate attempt to get out of the predicament and to cover up the scandal of the alleged victory of the Prophet Jacob over the Lord, Anba Bishoy says in his acrobatic interpretation:

quote

How did God allow Jacob to defeat Him in wrestling?


Notice that Jacob was not defeated to the end. In the end, He dislocated his thigh bone and could have ended his life if He wanted to. This situation, of course, has many meanings. Let us take the simple meaning first: If you notice a father playing with his children or training them in wrestling, for example, at first he is not too harsh, and does not let his young son be defeated, but rather gives him a chance to win. We have all seen that between a father and his children.

An excuse worse than a slip!


1- A father would not break the socket of one of his sons' thigh (the Lord, as they claim, broke the socket of the Prophet Jacob's thigh). This is if we assume, for the sake


of argument, that the father would allow his sons to defeat him during their wrestling with him! 2- The Lord, as they claim - may He be exalted above what they describe - humbled himself , hoping that the Prophet Jacob would release him after the latter had bound him tightly!


Were the two wrestlers joking with each other??? Absolutely not !


The event in its objective context:




Genesis 32:25


-And when he saw that he did not prevail against him, he struck the socket of his thigh; and Jacob's thigh was dislocated as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, “Let me go, for the day has broken.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”
27 Then he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.”
28 And he said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed.”
29 Then Jacob asked him, “Tell me your name.” He said: “Why do you ask my name?” And he blessed him there.







The rope of lies is short, O Crosstians!!!!

This was not a vision or a dream. It was a real event, and the proof of that is the injury to the Prophet Jacob in his thigh!
It was the Lord in his third appearance before the Prophet Jacob!!!

Attached images

     

Genesis 32: Translation of the Good News


27 - And the man said, “What is your name?” And he said, “My name is Jacob.”
28 - And he said, “Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have contended with God and with men, and have prevailed .”