Reply to: The claim that the story of Abraham and his father in the Qur’an was quoted from the Haggadah

 This research shows the close similarity between the verses of the Qur’an and the legendary Jewish book Haggadah, which was written in the first and fourth centuries AD.

Muhammad stole the story of Abraham and his father from the Jewish legends that were prevalent at that time.



These legends were present in the Jewish book Haggadah (The Haggadah הגדה‎), which includes the myths and legends





of the Jews. Professor Louis Ginzberg, a specialist in Talmudic and Jewish studies, translated the book Haggadah (The Haggadah הגדה‎) from Hebrew to English and organized it in the book The Legends of the Jews.



It seems that the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula knew that Muhammad stole these legends from previous civilizations, and this is what the Qur’an itself mentions.



Al-Anfal (verse: 31): And when Our verses are recited to them, they say, “We have heard. If we willed, we could say something like this. These are nothing but legends of the ancients.”

Al-Nahl (verse: 24): And when it is said to them, “What has your Lord revealed?” They say, “Legends of the ancients,




Abraham.” Abraham answered his father, and said : "How, then, canst thou serve these idols in whom there is no power to do anything? Can



these idols in

which thou trustest deliver thee? Can they hear thy prayers when thou callest upon them?" http://books.google.com/books?id=-x9...ered+his+fathe r,+and+said+:+%22+How,+then,+canst+thou+serve+thes e&hl=ar&cd=5#v=onepage&q=Abraham%20answered%20hi s% 20father%2C%20and%20said%20%3A%20%22%2C%20th en%2C%20canst%20thou%20serve%20these&f=false Translation Abraham answered his father, saying, "How then do you worship these idols that have no power to do anything? Can these idols in which you trust save you? Can she hear your prayer when you call upon her?" The Quran is nothing but a collection of Jewish and Christian myths and legends. Abraham preaches to his father and asks him to abandon idol worship . Here is the Quranic verse: “ When he said to his father, ‘O my father, why do you worship that which does not hear and does not see and does not avail you at all?’” (42) The legend as it appears in the book Abraham answered his father, and said: “How, then, canst thou serve these idols in whom there is no power to do anything? Can these idols in which you trustest deliver thee? Abraham answered his father, saying , " How then do you worship these idols that have no power to do anything? Can these idols that you trust save you? Can they hear your prayer when you call upon them?

All these myths are not mentioned in the Torah, but rather they are from the book of Haggadah, a book that contains Jewish myths and no Jew in the world believes in it.


Here is this paragraph from the book of beginnings by Dr. Gerald Massey:



The Jewish Haggadah deals with the legendary lore of Israel, the parables, myths
dark sayings, and allegories http://books.google.com/books?id=k7X...wish+haggadah+ deals+with+legendary&lr=&hl=ar&cd=4#v=onepage&q=je wish%20haggadah%20deals%20with%20legendary&f=false

Muhammad took these funny fables from the Jews of the Arabian Peninsula who were fluent in Hebrew and Arabic,


meaning that the Jews taught the Muslims these stories orally.

Here is the hadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari


- The People of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and explain it in Arabic to the Muslims, so the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said: (Do not believe the People of the Book and do not disbelieve them, and say: We believe in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to you). The verse.


Narrator: Abu Hurairah Narrator: Al-Bukhari - Source: Sahih Al-Bukhari - Page or number: 7362
Summary of the narrator's ruling: [Sahih

http://www.dorar.net/enc/hadith/+%D8...7%D9%85++%D8%A 8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%8A% D8%A9/+d1+w

Preparing for the response....

1- Is the Old Testament the source of the stories??
2- What about the Apocrypha??
3- Definition of Midrash
4- Contents of the Haggadah
5- Its status among the Jews
6- When was it written???
7- Who quoted from whom??
8- What about the Bible??
9- Response to what it contains...

1- Is the Old Testament the source of the stories??

Does the Old Testament contain all the stories since the beginning of creation???

In other words, does the fact that a story is mentioned in ancient heritage and not in the Old Testament mean that this story is false???

Or does the Old Testament not contain all the stories and there are stories that were not recorded in the Old Testament???


Let us first take the answer from the Old Testament...


1 Chronicles

29:29 Now the acts of King David, first and last, are they not written in the books of Samuel the seer, and in the books of Nathan the prophet, and in the books of Gad the seer?


Joshua

10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stood still, until the people had avenged themselves on their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? And the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down, about a whole day.

1 Kings

11:41 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon ? 2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the books of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer? On Jeroboam son of Nebat? The affairs of Solomon and Jasher and the history of Nathan and others... Many books of the Old Testament are not present... and have gone with the wind . There are those who admit the bitter truth that these books have been lost... such as the Encyclopedia of the Bible, for example... The Encyclopedia of the Bible - Chronicles, the Book of

Prophetic references that we no longer have.

Prophetic references that we no longer have.

Prophetic references that we no longer have.

For example, this is an Old Testament scholar

who places the book within the circle of lost books!!!!!

Let the pictures do the talking.

http://www.claudemariottini.com/blog...testament.html
http://www.seminary.edu/about/facult...ariottini.html


And there are the fathers... the ones with ridiculous justifications... they say that these books are not inspired... and I wonder why the writer refers us to them then...!!!

But these also stated that the writers of the Old Testament quoted things from them,

so these are not inspired books, but the book of revelation quoted from them

Old Testament Guide - Dr. Malak Muharib - Page 14

Whether these books are sacred or not... they certainly contain true things
as evidenced by the fact that the Book of Revelation quotes from them....


2- We also say... that the Old Testament that we see now is not the source of ancient history...

rather it is merely a summary of very old documents... and anyone who studies the Old Testament

knows very well the theory of the four sources... (J, E, D, P)

I will not go on too long and it is enough for me to quote what is stated in the book A General Idea about the Holy Bible, which summarizes the subject for us in wonderful points.

General idea about the Holy Bible - Monastery of Anba Makar - Page 22

For your information, the New Testament also does not contain everything about Christ, peace and blessings be upon him.

Comparative Theology Part One - Pope Shenouda - Page 54

The same applies to the Holy Quran...

2- We return to the Old Testament... and we say that unlike all this... the Jews distorted the Old Testament
as the Church Fathers told us... and they deleted and added to it until the morning...

Origen justifies to us the absence of the second canonical books in the Hebrew version by saying
that the Jews deleted them because they offended their elders...!!!!

The Old Testament as known by the Church of Alexandria

And when we read in the Gospel of Matthew .....

2: 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.


And of course this prophecy is not found in the Old Testament....!!! So where did it go???

The great scholar John Chrysostom answers us and says:

And what manner of prophet said this? Be not curious, nor overbusy. For many of the prophetic writings have been lost; and this one may see from the history of the Chronicles. 22 For being negligent, and continually falling into ungodliness, some they suffered to perish, others they themselves burned up23 and cut to pieces. The latter fact Jeremiah relates; 24 the former, he who composed the fourth book of Kings, saying, that after 2R 22,8, etc) a long time the book of Deuteronomy was hardly found, buried somewhere and lost. But if, when there was no barbarian there, they so betrayed their books, much more when the barbarians had overrun them .


http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/cl0.htm

Simplified translation .....
Who is the prophet who said this prophecy???

Do not be surprised by that ... There are many prophetic books that have been lost ... You can see this in the book of Chronicles .....
Because of negligence and lack of piety, they allowed some of them to be corrupted .... And they said to burn the others and tear them up
as mentioned by Jeremiah ..... And the writer of the fourth book of Kings ...

Then he spoke about the book of Deuteronomy that it was lost and completely forgotten and then found with difficulty after that ...

Then he finally decided the bitter truth

They so betrayed their books, much more when the barbarians had overrun them

Therefore, they are more traitors to their book than if they were under foreign rule.

Summary of the post...

1- The Old Testament does not contain all of human history
2- The Old Testament is merely a carrier of ancient documents
3- Many books were lost from it
4- It was distorted by the Jews as the Church Fathers explained to us . To be

It is funny and shameful at the same time for a Christian to come to us and tell us that the Quran quoted from the Apocrypha..!!

I really do not know what Apocrypha they are talking about????


If the conversation was with a Samaritan Jew and the Quran came and confirmed something in the Book of Isaiah, for example,
this Samaritan would tell us that the Quran quoted from the Apocrypha... and the rest of the Jews and Christians would not speak..!!


If the conversation was with a Jew or a Protestant and the Quran came and confirmed something in the Book of Joshua between Sirach,
this Jew or Protestant would tell us that the Quran quoted from the Apocrypha.... and the Orthodox and Catholic would not speak...!!


And if the Quran came and confirmed something in the Book of the Ascension of Isaiah, everyone would accuse us that the Quran
quoted from the Apocrypha, and the Christian in the Ethiopian Church would not speak because they believe in it as a holy book...!!

And the truth is, if we go back in time a little bit, the subject would be very funny..!!

If the Qur’an came and confirmed something in the Book of Revelation of Peter, everyone would be angry that the Qur’an copied from the Apocrypha,
and Clement of Alexandria would not speak because he believes that it is a holy book...!!!

Church History by Eusebius of Caesarea

Book 6 Chapter 14

If the Qur’an confirmed something in the Second Epistle of Peter, for example, not everyone would speak, but Clement of Alexandria would come to us again and tell us that the Qur’an quoted from the Apocrypha because he did not believe in the Second Epistle of Peter.

William Barkey's Commentary on the New Testament, page 331

If the Qur’an came and confirmed something in the Second Epistle of John, not everyone would speak, but Origen would come and object and say that the Qur’an quoted from the Apocrypha.

Church History Book 6 Chapter 25

If the Qur’an confirmed anything in the Epistle to the Shepherd of Hermas, everyone would revolt and say that the Qur’an copied from the Apocrypha, but Origen would be reassured from his revolt because he believes that the Book of the Shepherd of Hermas is a holy book.

The Didache page 57

Even if the Qur’an confirmed something in the Second Epistle of Peter, not everyone would speak,
but we will see Eusebius of Caesarea very upset and he will say that the Qur’an quoted from the Apocrypha because he does not believe in the Book of Revelation.

Church History Book 3 Chapter 3

Even if the Qur’an came and confirmed something in the Second Book of Maccabees, no one would speak,
but we would see the protector of the faith and the author of the creed, the great saint and scholar Athanasius the Apostolic,
angry and declaring to everyone that the Qur’an quoted from the Apocrypha because he does not believe in the Second Book of Maccabees.

Encyclopedia of the Bible

If the Qur’an came and confirmed something in the letter of Jeremiah, everyone would now say that the Qur’an copied from the Apocrypha, and everyone would not speak in the past either , because they believed in the legitimacy of this letter.

Encyclopedia of the Bible....

I won't take much longer

But any Christian must know that he has no evidence of the authenticity of the books he believes in,
nor does he have any evidence of the invalidity of the books he does not believe in.


What are the criteria for determining the legality of a book....???

The scholar Father Mikhail Mina responds to us

Theology - Volume IV Page 37

Tradition is the only thing... I repeat, the only thing... that determines the legality of the books.
These are not my words, but the words of Father Mikhail Mina.

But I wonder if there is any scientific standard to determine the correct tradition from the false one...???

Reverend James Ans responds to us in the book Systematic Theology.. Translated by Reverend Monis Abdel Nour

Systematic Theology Page - 41

I will not comment and leave the comment to anyone whom God has given a mind to think with....


The Samaritan believes in books other than those believed in by the rest of the Jews
, and the Protestant has his own holy books and his own Apocrypha that
are different from the Orthodox and Catholic ones....
completely different from the books of the Christian in the Ethiopian Church....!!!

In other words... the Christians themselves do not know what the Apocrypha books are in the first place....

These books have developed over the years, so what was sacred hundreds of years ago has become unsacred... as we saw in the Epistle of Jeremiah,

and what was unsacred 1200 years ago in the Syriac Church has now become sacred,
as the Syriac Church rejected the Book of Revelation for 1200 years and then accepted it after that...!!!

Introduction to the New Testament - Dr. Fahim Aziz - Page 641

So, the matter is as God Almighty said...




They have no knowledge of it. They follow nothing but assumption , and assumption avails nothing against the truth.

Definition of Midrash....

Midrash, as Al-Muheet Al-Jami’ knows


, is the interpretation of the Torah by the rabbis to clarify legal points and provide moral instruction using news, proverbs, and narratives....

http://www.albishara.org/dictionary....cc509a6f75849b


Ghazi Al-Saadi says in his book - Holidays, Occasions, and Rituals among the Jews - 73

that it is the method of the rabbis in interpreting the Old Testament, where the words are scrutinized to reach the meaning of the text and what it conceals....

Dr. Emil Maher says: The Holy Bible according to the interpretation of the ancient fathers...

is the activity of the captains in interpreting the verses and extracting the deep meanings from them.

The Catholic Encyclopedia says:

The term

commonly designates ancient rabbinical commentaries on the Hebrew Scriptures.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10286b.htm


David Stern says

: The Midrash is the oldest commentary on the Bible.

Midrash attempts , through minute examination and interpretation of the Tanach, to bring out the deeper or ethical meaning of the text

. http://www.yashanet.com/studies/juda...rs/midrash.htm

The Midrash is divided, as the above sources indicate, into two sections:

1- Midrash Halachah

2- Midrash Haggadah

http://www.albishara.org/dictionary....cc509a6f75849b

There are two main types of Midrash - Midrash Aggadah and Midrash Halachah

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/juda...rs/midrash.htm

The two basic types of midrash are known as Midrash Aggadah , regarding the ethical or spiritual exposition of a text, and Midrash Halakhah , referring to the exegesis of biblically-related Jewish law

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Midrash

A third category of rabbinic literature is midrash, of which there are two types . Midrash aggada derive the sermonic implications from the biblical text; Midrash halakha derive laws from it.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...&_midrash.html

The Midrashic works can be divided into two classes : The Halachic Midrash and the Non-Halachic Midrash . A Halachic Midrash is one that deals with legal material, while a non-halachic Midrash deals with moral or theological issues

http://www.judaismsanswer.com/midrash.htm



Midrash Halachah... Midrash Halachah

talks about matters related to the law and explains its details....

As for the Haggadah... we will talk about it, God willing...

THE HAGGADAH
(The Haggadah)

Its definition and contents...

The Haggadah deals with the narrative explanation of the texts of the Old Testament... meaning that it attempts to interpret the texts using stories and sermons...

Ghazi Al-Saadi says in his book - page 73

Or related to other non-legislative topics that are not addressed in the Midrash Halakah.

Midrash Haggadah embraces the interpretation, illustration, or expansion, in a moralizing or edifying manner, of the non-legal portions of the Bible

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...d=587&letter=M


What are the contents of the Haggadah???

The expert who wrote the topic says

This research shows the strong similarity between the verses of the Qur’an and the legendary Jewish book, the Haggadah.

These myths were found in the Jewish book The Haggadah ????‎, which includes fables.

I never imagined that I would see such ignorance.

He says that the Haggadah is a mythical book and there is nothing about it in the Torah...???!!

Okay, let's see...

It is stated in Al-Muheet Al-Jami’

and Midrash Ha-Gada that it is based on sermons that were heard in the synagogues. They are sermonizing news and news that build the community to extract moral teachings from the Torah .

http://www.albishara.org/dictionary....cc509a6f75849b



And Father Emil Maher says - The Holy Bible, the correct method of interpretation - Page 15

The New Jewish encyclopedia- By David Bridger, Samuel Wolk - pg 183

In the hands of the child - 12

An introductory dictionary of theology and religious studies- By Orlando O, James B. Nickoloff- pg 531

Dictionary of Jewish words - Joyce Eisenberg - 56

The Haggadah contains prayers, readings from the Torah, instructions for the Seder, old and new commentary on the Exodus, and sometimes songs .

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-haggadah.htm

The traditional Haggadah offers a set of instructions for conducting the Passover service, interspersed with readings from the Bible, rabbinical commentaries, legends, prayers, hymns and children's songs

http://haggadahs.tripod.com/women.htm

The Haggadah contains prayers, readings from the Torah (the Old Testament), songs and commentary about the story .

http://www.education.com/activity/ar...gadah_Scrolls/

The traditional Haggadah, which contains prayers, readings from the Torah, old and new commentary on the Exodus, and sometimes songs , can take more than an hour.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...ah-adaptations

Midrash Aggadah is the most common and contains stories and legends, concerned with ethical teachings or other topical issues.

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/juda...rs/midrash.htm

Haggadah (or Aggadah) - Storytelling, like parables or midrash (see entry below). Explaining the Bible and theology using story. Often contrasted with halakah, legal rulings (below). Also, in the Passover Seder, each person traditionally has a book with the story of Passover, plus songs and prayers called a Haggadah.

http://www.egrc.net/pages/glossary.html

Haggadah is the holy script of the Jews, which gives a detailed description of the different rituals that have to be observed during the Passover Seder, in a stepwise manner. A total of 15 steps have been structured in the book and the reading of each of these steps is considered as a spiritual commandment and directive for every Jew. In addition to the explanation of the Seder rituals, Haggadah also contains Biblical passages, prayers, hymns, blessings, benedictions, stories, dialogues and even rabbinic literature

http://festivals.iloveindia.com/passover/haggadah.html

If the contents of the Haggadah...

Readings from the Torah...

prayers... songs... stories...

stories about the Exodus of the Children of Israel...

rabbinical commentaries...

psalms and hymns

... legends...

So this book is like what Christians call the Old Testament... it contains everything, and it contains tales, stories, myths, prayers, songs, and poems...
and it is the same description that Gustave Le Bon, the French historian, described the Old Testament with...

Jews in the history of early civilizations - Page 106

So saying that the Haggadah is a book of myths is incorrect and shows ignorance...

Her status among the Jews...

The genius says...

It is from the Haggadah, a book that contains Jewish myths, and no Jew in the world believes in it.

Now the faith of the Jews has become the standard of truth from falsehood...!!

Doesn't this ignorant person know that the Jews believe that the Talmud is a divine book and sanctify it more than the Torah.??

And of course I don't need to say what the Talmud said about Jesus.....!!!

As for the Haggadah, it is of course a book that has its own sanctity for the Jews and they read from it during the Passover holiday....

Jewish Holidays, Occasions and Rituals - Ghazi Al-Saadi - pg 16




The Haggadah contains the religious rituals used in the Jewish Passover holiday.


Celebrate Passover Haggadah - Joan R. Lipis - pg 5





The Haggadah contains the Passover prayers....

My People's Passover Haggadah - Lawrence A. Hoffman - 3





It contains the religious rituals of Passover and is the most printed Jewish book in America.


Key texts in American Jewish culture - Jack Kugelmass






Also....

The New Jewish encyclopedia- By David Bridger, Samuel Wolk - pg 183

‏

The text of the Pesach seder is written in a book called the haggadah . The haggadah tells the story of the Exodus from Egypt and explains some of the practices and symbols of the holiday

http://www.jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm

The text of the Passover seder is written in a book called the Haggadah .

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../holidaya.html


What this ignorant person certainly does not know is that the Talmud, the holy book of the Jews, is considered one of the origins of the Haggadah. The Talmud contains many Haggadahs.

The Talmud is simply a Mishnah and a Gemara. The Gemara contains many Haggadahs.

Introduction to the Talmud - Edin Steinsaltz - Page 81





The Holy Bible: The Correct Method of Interpretation - Rev. Emil Maher - Page 81

For your information, the Babylonian Talmud was completed in 700 AD...

that is, more than 60 years after the death of the Messenger... (so we can get rid of this doubt once and for all)

Talmud, the Holy Book of the Jews - Dr. Ahmed Ibish - pg 33




A mosaic of Israel's traditions - Esther Shkalim, Diana Schiowitz, Frieda Horwitz - pg 302





Major world religions - Lloyd VJ Ridgeon





Texts and traditions - Lawrence H. Schiffman - pg 613

The question as to when the Gemara was finally put into its present form is not settled among modern scholars. Some of the text did not reach its final form until around 700 CE

Simplified translation...

The question is... When did the Gemara take its present form? Some texts did not take their final form until around 700 AD


http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Talmud

settled among modern scholars. Some, like Louis Jacobs, argue that the main body of the Gemara is not simple reportage of conversations, as it purports to be, but a highly elaborate structure contrived by the Saboraim, who must therefore be regarded as the real authors. On this view the text did not reach its final form until around 700.

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Babylonian_Talmud

http://www.talital.net/Talmud.html


We conclude this post with an electric shock from the Jewish Encyclopedia

As early as the third century Joshua ben Levi interpreted Deut. ix. 10 to mean that the entire Law, including Mi?ra, Mishnah, Talmud, and Haggadah, had been revealed to Moses on Sinai

Simplified translation .....

Since the third century, Rabbi Joshua ben Levi interpreted

the text of Deuteronomy (9:10) to include the entire law (the Mikra (Old Testament), the Talmud, the Haggadah, and the Mishnah) that was revealed to Moses on the mountain.


Deuteronomy

9:10 And the Lord gave me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on them were according to all the words that the Lord spoke to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...rch=talmud#114

And there are many verses that the Jews use as evidence for the oral revelation represented in the Talmud, the Haggadah, and the Mishnah ... etc. .... such as

Exodus

24:12 And the Lord said to Moses, Come up to me on the mountain, and be there, and I will give you the tablets of stone , the law, and the commandments that I have written, for their instruction.

For more
http://ftp.fortunaty.net/com/sacred-...ub12.htm#fr_35

When was the text completed???

The funny thing is that the Haggadah, which the cross worshipper claims the Quran was taken from, was completely completed in the 13th century AD... that is, 600 years after Islam...!!!


It is stated in Al-Muheet Al-Jami'

that the news literature (Hagadah) that extends from the time of the Mishnah to the 13th century is full of proverbs, moral teachings, sermons, stories and tales

http://www.albishara.org/dictionary....cc509a6f75849b


The Haggadah is not a source of fixed content, but rather a renewable source.

my people passover haggadah - pg 5

It went through many stages from 170 AD to the thirteenth century...

and underwent modifications during this period...

The New Jewish encyclopedia - By David Bridger, Samuel Wolk - pg 183

Different Midrashim were written down at different times, over a period of almost a thousand years, from 300 - 1200 CE.

http://www.yashanet.com/studies/juda...rs/midrash.htm

The complete oldest Haggadah dates from the 10th century, and Haggadot were first printed in the 15th century. Around the same time, a few Passover songs and additional text were appended to the Haggadah , though the rest of the text did not undergo much change. It is still common to see these songs at the end of a Haggadah.

The Haggadah began in 170 AD (the Tanaaim Period) .... and then its content increased in the Amoraim Period (500 AD) ..... Amoraim Period. ..... But the Haggadah did not take its final and complete form until the tenth century in Babylon by the great rabbis of the Jews ... the Geonim .....

Although the Passover Haggadah was assembled in Talmudic times, its content continued to be fluid. It was only in the period of the great rabbis (or "Geonim" in Hebrew) who studied in the Sura and Pumbedita academies in Babylonia in the 9th and 10th centuries CE, that a stable form of the Passover Haggadah text was established.

http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/passove...rhaggadah.html




Haggadah dates back to the era of the Mishnaic and the Talmudic, somewhere around 200 CE to 500 CE. However, a stable version of the script was formed only during the 9th and the 10th centuries CE.


http://festivals.iloveindia.com/passover/haggadah.html

Although the Passover Haggadah was formed in Talmudic times, its contents changed over time. The contents of the Passover Haggadah only became stable in the 9th and 10th centuries when the great rabbis (also known in Hebrew as the “Geonim”) in the Jewish academies of learning in Babylonia,

http://4passover.tripod.com/haggadah.html

Although the Passover Haggadah was assembled
in Talmudic times, its content seemed to be fluid. Apparently, it was during the "Gaonim" period (9th and 10th centuries CE) that a stable
text form emerged. The earliest, completed Haggadah text, according to one internet source, appeared in the Siddur of Rav Saadiah Gaon of the Sura Academy (Babylonia, 10th century CE)

http://osdir.com/ml/culture.religion.../msg00436.html

7th Century CE - 8th Century CE: The Geonim (the leaders of the Jewish academies of learning in Sura and Pumbeditia, Babylonia, now Iraq) compile the version of the Haggadah as it is known today.

http://www.algemeiner.com/generic.asp?id=5351

The earliest extant written haggadah text is a relatively complete fragment datable to 8th or 9th-cent

ury

http://jhom.com/calendar/nisan/history.html

7th Century CE - 8th Century CE: The Geonim (the leaders of the Jewish academies of learning in Sura and Pumbeditia, Babylonia, now Iraq) compile the version of the Haggadah as it is known today .

http://www.algemeiner.com/generic.asp?id=5351


There is one that was written down in its entirety in the 10th century....


Haggadah Berashit,
a sermonizing Midrash on the Book of Genesis. It consists of 24 chapters divided into three sections according to the three-year cycle of readings. Each chapter begins with an exegetical Midrash on a verse from the weekly Pentateuch. Then comes an exegesis of a verse from the reading of the Prophets, then from the Psalms. The text may have been written down in the 10th century . Its content is based on the Midrash Tanhumah (old version).

http://www.albishara.org/dictionary....3e19c7f2529f2b


In the 13th century, additions were also made....

The Union Haggadah - pg 88,98

See also.....

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/uh/uh28.htm The first Haggadah appears as a


separate

volume/book (earlier versions of the Haggadah were appended to the Siddur, or Jewish prayer book).

http://www.algemeiner.com/generic.asp?id=5351


The oldest manuscripts date back to the 13th century.....

The Shengold Jewish Encyclopedia - pg 100

See also

http://www.library.yale.edu/judaica/.../exhibit1.html


And even if it was before that, it would not be in any way older than the Old Testament manuscripts (tenth century... except for Qumran of course )

We proved in previous interventions ... that the Holy Bible does not contain all the correct historical stories
and that a story mentioned in another source does not mean that it is incorrect .....

and we proved that Christians do not know the sacred from the false and that each sect has its own holy book
and its own apocrypha ..... rather each father of the church had his own holy book ..... !!
and that each sect does not have evidence of the truth of what it has nor evidence of the falseness of what others have ....

and we proved that these books do not contain myths as the ignorant said ... rather they contain many things
and their owners believe that they are oral revelation from God .....

and that these books took their final form hundreds of years after Islam .....

These matters are enough to crush the doubt ....


but there are still problems ..... who quoted from whom ....???

Did the Jews quote from Islam??? ... or did the Messenger quote from the Jews??? .. or did no quoting occur at all and this is possible as we will explain by the grace of God Almighty .....

Did the Jews borrow from the Muslims?

Very likely... especially in this field, and this is according to the admission of the Jews themselves, not the words of the Muslims...

Introduction to the Saadia Gaon Commentary - Moshe Mordechai Zucker - Pages 43, 44

It has been shown to us that the Jewish commentators borrowed a lot from the Muslim commentators






and the book mentions many things that Jewish scholars took from the Muslims... We mention for example... the Muhkam and the Ambiguity...



Dr. Muhammad Khalifa confirms this in the introduction to the book, page 4



, and Dr. Muhammad Idris quotes the same words from Gold Tziher in the book The Islamic Influence on Jewish Thought, page 19.





Rabbi Naftali Rothenberg says

that Judaism owes a lot to Islam for the emergence of the complete Jewish philosophical works in the Middle Ages. This literature, which emerged from an in-depth dialogue with Islam and was influenced by Muslim thinkers, includes, among other things, the writings of Rabbi Saadia Gaon, Maimonides, Rabbi Pashaya ibn Bakuda, and Rabbi Yehuda Halevi, and has formed a cornerstone of Jewish culture to this day.

http://www.commongroundnews.org/arti...0&sp=0&isNew=1

If Jews quote Muslims, it is very likely...

Could it be that the Messenger is the one who quoted from the Haggadah???

Let us decide some facts....

1- The Messenger was illiterate, he could neither read nor write... and we have proven this here.

2- There is no book translated into Arabic during the lifetime of the Messenger, 
and we have proven this here.


3- Most of the stories came in Meccan surahs. Surah Maryam, which contains the dialogue of our master Abraham with his father, is a Meccan surah... and many other surahs contain stories and tales of previous nations, such as the stories, Joseph, and Yunus...

and this is a very serious matter... because there were no Jews in Mecca...!!
This is mentioned in many texts that indicate the presence of Jews in Mecca... or they were a small minority,
but what is certain is that there were no Jews with knowledge in Mecca....

We find this in the story of the Quraish testing the Messenger when they wanted to test his prophethood,
they sent a mission to the Jewish rabbis in Medina to bring questions from the Jewish rabbis and ask them to the Prophet .... Their going to Medina is the greatest evidence of the presence of Jews with knowledge in Mecca,
and the story in detail is here...

And this story is evidence of the absence of Jews with knowledge in Mecca....

Dr. Israel Wolfenson says in his book, The History of the Jews in the Arab Countries, page 98,

that this story is evidence of the absence of knowledgeable Jews in Mecca.

Another proof

came in Sahih Muslim:

The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, came to Medina and found the Jews fasting on the day of Ashura. They were asked about that and they said, “This is the day on which Allah gave victory to Moses and the Children of Israel over Pharaoh, so we fast it to honor him.” The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “We are closer to Moses than you are.” So he ordered that it be fasted.

http://hadith.al-islam.com/display/D...Doc=1&Rec=2491

This narration is conclusive... and confirms that there were no Jews in Mecca... (or a small number).
The Prophetdid not know that the Jews fasted on Ashura until he migrated to Medina...

Some orientalists have tried to prove the existence of Jews in Mecca... but all of this evidence is weak.
History does not tell us that the Jews had a neighborhood of their own in Mecca... or a specific temple in which they performed their prayers.


4- Even if there were Jews in Mecca... the holy books are not available except... Only for rabbis...and it was not circulated among people like the Quran and Hadith in Islam....

It was stated in the introduction to the book - The Talmud: Its Origin, Sequence and Literature

5- It is impossible that a Jew taught the Messenger this... for a very simple reason
, the Holy Quran condemned the Jews and the Jewish belief and accused them of distorting the book
. If there was a Jew who was a source of the Quran... he would have been disgraced later .
This applies to Jews, Christians and even atheists,
as Islam did not promote any belief except Islam alone... and it forbade embracing any other religion.


6- The Messenger remained imprisoned for 3 years in the valley of Abu Talib... and we did not hear that the Holy Quran stopped during this period... so how do we explain this????


7- The Messenger migrated from Mecca to Medina and then returned to Mecca again.
Was this person migrating with him????


8- How dare the Messenger challenge the Jews and Christians with the Quran while he was learning from a Jew or a Christian or or.... Isn't this challenge sufficient evidence to prove that the Quran has only one source, which is revelation????


9- How do we explain the existence of stories that do not exist in the Old Testament and the rest of the heritage,
such as the story of the Prophet of God Saleh, Haman, the minister of Pharaoh, and the people of Aad....


9- There is another problem.... The mind that understood that a man was able to quote from the Old Testament and the Haggadah under these impossible circumstances above,

how can it then understand that this man made a mistake in narrating the name of the Prophet of God Abraham...!!!
The Quran said that the name of our master Abraham's father was Azar... and in the Torah his name is Terah
. How do we explain this, for God's sake, you people of reason...?
Is it reasonable that a person quotes entire Surahs and is unable to quote the name of our master Abraham's father
? Is this not evidence that the Quran has no sources other than God's revelation only???


10- There is also a problem... Why, after all this effort, is the Quran attributed to God Almighty?!!!
Why did he not do like the book of the Gospels, for example... and say that God inspires him while he writes?
At least we write on the book from outside... the Quran according to Muhammad.???

What about the calamities and major sins of the prophets of the Torah??? What about the scientific disasters of the Torah,
and what and what... Questions that have only one answer... These are from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. You knew it not, nor did your people, before this. So be patient. Indeed, the [ best] outcome is for the righteous.



This is from the news of the unseen




which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad], and you were not with them when they agreed upon their plan while they were plotting

The cross worshipper objected that the Quran confirmed something found in the Jewish tradition...

and he stood up, sat down and shouted...

By God, there is no god but Him... if this person had read His writings he would not have spoken...

Some cross worshippers also object when the Quran comes and confirms something found in the Apocrypha.

They object to Muslims who believe that the origin of all these books is revelation but that they have been corrupted... as we will explain in the last post, God willing...


As for them, their calamity is great, by the Lord of the Kaaba...


1- Let us go to the founder of the Christian religion, Paul...


Timothy 3:8

And just as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so these also resist the truth. They are corrupt in mind, and depraved in their faith.


I wonder who is Professor Yanis...and who is Uncle Yambres???


Tadros Yacoub Malti responds to us in his interpretation and says...

The Messenger gave an example of deceitful teachers in what happened in the days of the Prophet Moses and Aaron, when the two deceitful magicians, Yanis and Yambres, resisted them. The Messenger knew the two names not from the Bible, but from Jewish tradition.



No comment...!!!!

Bishop Raphael says the same thing:

Is the Holy Bible alone enough? - Page 43

A disaster, by the Lord of the Kaaba .....!!!


The most annoying thing is the quotation of the New Testament from the Apocryphal books.... on the basis that they are canonical books.


We find this in the Epistle of Jude

1:9. But when Michael the archangel disputed with Satan, arguing about the body of Moses, he did not dare to utter a slanderous sentence, but said, "The Lord rebuke you

." And of course this story of Moses with Satan... is taken from the book, The Lifting of the Body of Moses, as stated by William Barclay, the interpreter of the New Testament...

and this is an apocryphal book... Good morning, Christians...

The Torah is Forged - Translated and Introduced by Musa Khoury - Volume Two, Page 499

It also came in the Epistle of Jude ...

1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints.


The man testifies to Enoch the seventh .... !!!
And he believed in the truth of this prophecy, as William Barclay stated .... A disaster, by the Lord of the Kaaba
. For your information, the Epistle of Jude was rejected in the past by some of the fathers .....

William Barclay's Interpretation - Page 269

2- What the worshippers of the cross should also know is that the books of Matthew, Luke and John were quoting verbatim from the Gospel of Mark...!! I wonder how Matthew the disciple would quote from Mark, who is not a disciple...!!
And how John, the beloved of the Lord, would quote from the Gospel of Mark, who had never seen the Lord at all....!!

This is of course in contrast to the documents l, m, and Q.

The books of Matthew, Luke and John used these (lost) documents and quoted from them. 

So what is the evidence, O Christians, that these documents are 100% authentic???!!

And how can we believe that the Gospels are inspired by God... and the writers were quoting from other books...!!!

And despite all these calamities and disasters in their writing... the Quran comes to us and says...!!!




To see the evidence in detail from Christian references (click here)



3- Also, the scandals of the writers regarding the quotations have not and will not end yet....

And my regards to the laws of Hammurabi....

Encyclopedia of the Bible - Hammurabi's Laws

These stories included the same legislative principles as the Code of Hammurabi (see Articles 144-146).

We also find in other stories in the Old Testament the same traditions and customs as those found
in the Code of Hammurabi, as the marriage gifts presented to Rebekah resemble the Babylonian dowry (see Gen. 24:53 with Article 159 of the Code of Hammurabi, as well as Gen. 31:14 and 15).
There are notable points of agreement between the Code of Hammurabi and the Law of Moses
(Exodus 20:22-23:32). Here we mention some examples:
.
.
.
. After listing the similarities, they said,
and we cannot assert that the agreements we presented came as a result of random coincidence , nor can we say that they were directly transferred from the Code of Hammurabi, because the Law of Moses has a special character that bears the imprint of Israelite culture , in addition to the existence of many clear differences, this is also in addition to the scandal of the Akhenaten hymns.

Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities of Egypt, said that Psalms 104 and 105 of the Old Testament are quoted word for word from the hymns of Pharaoh Akhenaten found on the walls of the temples.

http://www.brmasr.com/view_article.p...t_news&id=1684

The genius says

It seems that the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula knew that Muhammad stole these myths from previous civilizations, and this is what the Qur’an itself mentions


in Al-Anfal (verse: 31): And when Our verses are recited to them, they say, “We have heard. If we willed, we could say something like this. This is not but myths of the ancients.”

Al-Nahl (verse: 24): And when it is said to them, “What has your Lord revealed?” They say, “Myths of the ancients.”

The funny thing is that he says that the Jews told the Messenger that he was telling myths
. How can that be, when the Jews consider the Haggadah a religious book...!! Masha
Allah... The Jew considers the Haggadah a religious book... and when he hears a story in the Quran that resembles a story in the Haggadah, he accuses the Messenger of telling myths...!!! Masha Allah, these are words that only come from Christians... By the Lord of the Kaaba,





as for the Messenger, there is no accusation in the universe that has not been directed at him 
. He was accused of being a soothsayer, a magician, a madman, a liar, and he was accused of his wife, etc.
We have refuted this claim above...


The genius continues his words and says:

Hamad took these funny fables from the Jews of the Arabian Peninsula who were fluent in Hebrew and Arabic,


meaning that the Jews taught the Muslims these stories orally.

Here is the hadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari


- The People of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew, and explain it in Arabic to the Muslims, so the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said: (Do not believe the People of the Book and do not disbelieve them, and say: We believe in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to you). The verse.


Narrator: Abu Hurairah Narrator of Hadith: Al-Bukhari - Source: Sahih Al-Bukhari - Page or number: 7362
Summary of the Hadith’s ruling: [Sahih

Here, the intelligence has its due...
He uses a narration that says that the People of the Book used to read the Torah... to prove that the Messenger quoted from the Haggadah ...

The narration says Torah and he says Haggadah... Allah is sufficient for

me, and He is the best Disposer of affairs. Of course, this narration happened in the Medinan era... because there was no state of peace or dialogue at all between the Muslims and any other faction in Mecca...
In the Meccan era, the call began in secret, then to the stage of torture, then to the migration from Mecca.

Frankly, I am surprised... If the Quranic stories were derived from hearsay
, then where did the Messenger get the stories that are not mentioned in the Torah and the rest of the books???

Is it conceivable that all these Quranic stories were derived from hearsay???
Words that do not enter the mind of a child...



Let us come to the heart of the matter, which is the dialogue of our master Abraham with his father...

The scholar says :

Abraham answered his father, and said : "How, then, canst thou serve these idols in whom there is no power to do anything? Can these idols in which thou trustest deliver thee? Can they hear thy prayers when thou callest upon them




? " Abraham answered his father, saying, "How then do you worship these idols that have no power to do anything? Can these idols that you trust save you? Can they hear your prayer when you call upon them? " And here is the Qur’anic verse: “ When he said to his father, ‘O my father, why do you worship that which does not hear and does not see and does not avail you at all?’” (42) The legend as it appears in the book: Abraham answered his father, and said: “How, then, canst thou serve these idols in whom there is no power to do anything? Can these idols in which you trustest deliver thee? Can they hear thy prayers when you callest upon them?” Abraham answered his father, saying, “How then do you worship these idols that have no power to do anything? Can these idols that you trust save you? Can they hear your prayer when you call upon them? ”

And of course I did not look at his words nor follow the links to the topic...

because Effendi thinks that the source of Abraham's dialogue with his father is the Haggadah

, and this of course is the result of extreme ignorance... because the source of the story is the Book of Jubilees,

and this book is apocryphal to the Jews, Orthodox, Catholics, and Protestants,
but it is believed in by the Christians in the Ethiopian Church...

and here is the dialogue...

# And it came to pass in the sixth week, in the seventh year thereof, [1904 AM] that Abram said to Terah his father, saying, 'Father!'
# And he said, 'Behold, here am I, my son.' And he said,

'What help and profit we have from those idols which you dost worship,
And before which you dost bow thyself?

# For there is no spirit in them,
for they are dumb forms, and a misleading of the heart.
Worship them not:

# Worship the God of heaven,
who causes the rain and the dew to descend on the earth
, and does everything upon the earth,

and has created everything by His word,
and all life is from before His face.

#Why do ye worship things that have no spirit in them?
For they are the work of (men's) hands,

And on your shoulders do ye bear them,
And ye have no help from them,

But they are a great cause of shame to those who make them,
And a misleading of the heart to those Who worship them:
Worship them not.'

#And his father said unto him, I also know it, my son, but what shall I do with a people who have made me serve before them?
#And if I tell them the truth, they will slay me; for their soul cleaves to them to worship them and honor them.

http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/12.htm


The Biblical Encyclopedia - Ethiopia .....

The Ethiopian Bible consists of 46 books in the Old Testament, 35 books in the New Testament. In addition to the canonical books, they accept the Shepherd of Hermas, the Canons of the Councils, the Epistles of Clement, the Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, the Four Books of Esdras, the Ascension of Isaiah, the Book of Adam, Joseph Ben Gurion, Enoch, and Jubilees.


The story is found in the Ethiopian Church Book and the Talmud.


The Biblical Encyclopedia - Visions - Apocalyptic Writings.

The credit for the Book of "Jubilees" reaching us in its complete form - like many of these books - goes to the Ethiopian Church considering it one of its canonical books. Parts of it were discovered in Latin and Syriac in the second source of the Apocalyptic books, the Ambrose Library in Milan, and there are several manuscripts of it in the Ethiopian language.

Much of this book found its way into the Talmud , unlike other books of this type, so although we believe that the author was an Essenist, we also think that he was sympathetic to the Pharisaic school in its later stages.

All these myths are not mentioned in the Torah.

A final word to the Christians...



I say to the Christians... O Christians, God Almighty told us that He sent down heavenly books
and He did not tell us that these books were lost... But He told us that these books were distorted.

I also say to you that God Almighty did not name any book for us... and He said that this book contains some revelation... No, this did not happen...

and the Messengertold us

that whatever the People of the Book told you, do not believe them or disbelieve them... and say: We believe in God and His Messengers.
If it is false, do not believe it, and if it is true, do not disbelieve it

The Messengerdid not say... whatever the People of the Book told you from the Old Testament and the New Testament, do not believe them or disbelieve them...!!!


This classification is your words and does not bind us in any way....

The Old Testament, the Old Testament, the Apocrypha, the Talmud, the Haggadah, the tradition, etc.,

all of these books are the same to Muslims. We neither believe them nor disbelieve them....


I repeat my words...

The Old Testament, the Old Testament, the Apocrypha, the Talmud, the Haggadah, the tradition, etc.,

all of these books are the same to Muslims. We neither believe them nor disbelieve them....


What the Qur’an believes is true, what the Qur’an disbelieves is false, and what the Qur’an is silent about, we are silent about....


Oh Christians, you confused ones...

God Almighty did not send down a book called the Old Testament nor a book called the New Testament.

These are human names... the names of Miletus and Tertullian.

Oh Christians,

you are confused. You do not have anything to prove that this is a revelation and that is a lie... I have explained that above

. All of these heritage books are of unknown authorship... We do not know who wrote them, when, and where.

I challenge anyone to prove that any book of the Old Testament is attributed to its author...


Oh Christians, you are confused.

I can only tell you what our master Joseph said:

They are only names which you have named, you and your fathers, for which God has sent down no authority.