Reply to Anba Takla website: (The meaning of “I ascend to my Father and my God”)

 

Question: In a chapter of the Gospel on the Feast of the Resurrection (John 20), we heard the Lord Christ say to Mary Magdalene: “Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God.’” What is the interpretation of that?
The priest’s answer:
In Saint Augustine’s interpretation of this chapter, he said in his explanation, “Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father,” meaning do not approach me with this thought in which you say, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him” (John 20:2, 13, 15), as if I had not risen and they had stolen my body according to the false rumors of the Jews.
Because I have not yet ascended to the level of my Father in your thinking.
It is known that she touched him when she held his feet and bowed down to him during her previous visit to the tomb with the other Mary (Matthew 28:1, 9).
Another note that St. Augustine mentioned is:
He said: To my Father and your Father, and did not say to our Father. And he said: To my God and your God, and did not say our God. Separating between his relationship with the Father, and their relationship with him.
He is my Father in essence, nature, and divinity, as I said before, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). One in divinity, nature, and essence. Therefore, I was called in the Gospel the only Son (John 3:16, 18) (John 1:18) (1 John 4:9). This article is taken from the website of the Church of Anba Takla. As for you, you were called sons according to faith, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name” (John 1:12). And also sons according to love, as the Apostle John said, “See what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God” (1 John 3:1). In short, it is a sonship of the type of adoption, as the Apostle Paul said, “For you did not receive the spirit of slavery again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, ‘Abba, Father’” (Romans 8:15). It was also said, “that he might redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive adoption as sons” (Galatians 4:5) [see also Romans 9:5, Ephesians 1:5]. So He is my Father in one sense, and your Father in another sense. And so it is with respect to the divinity. He is your God in that He created you from nothing. And with respect to me, in terms of human nature, since I took the form of a servant in the likeness of men, and became in appearance as a human being (Philippians 2:7, 8). Here Christ speaks as a representative of humanity, in his capacity as the Son of Man. It seems that everyone’s enthusiasm for the divinity of Christ sometimes makes them forget His humanity (read another article on this subject here on St-Takla.org in the Questions and Articles section). He united with a perfect human nature, in order to perform the work of redemption. He was like (his brothers) in all things, in order to atone for the sins of the people (Hebrews 2:17). St. Paul said to his disciple Timothy, “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). Here he performs the work of mediation as a human, because man must die. He also says the same expression in the letter to the Corinthians in the comparison between Adam and Christ, “The first man was of the earth, dusty; the second man is from heaven” (1 Corinthians 15:47). Here he speaks of him as a man and a Lord. In him humanity and divinity were united in one nature, which is the nature of the incarnate Word.







In terms of human nature, he said: My God and your God, distinguishing the two relationships.
The evidence that he was speaking from the human side is that he said to Mary Magdalene, “Go to my brothers,” for they are his brothers in terms of humanity, not in terms of divinity. Likewise, his saying, “I ascend to my Father and your Father,” as ascension does not pertain to divinity at all, because God neither ascends nor descends, because He fills everything, He is present everywhere. There is no place above that is empty of Him, so that He ascends to it. He ascends bodily. As we say to Him in the Gregorian Mass, “And when you ascend bodily to heaven…”
Likewise, he speaks to people who have not yet grown in faith. He
speaks to a woman who wants to touch him bodily, to verify his resurrection and receive a blessing, and he speaks about disciples who have not yet believed in his resurrection (Gospel of Mark 16:9-13)… Is it reasonable that he would then speak to them about his divinity?!
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​Of course, this is a major contradiction that casts doubt on the testimony of the Gospels about the resurrection, so the priest wanted to solve this problem by saying:
“It is known that she touched him when she held his feet and bowed down to him during her previous visit to the tomb with the other Mary (Matthew 28:1, 9).”
Unfortunately, he chose the wrong story to be the one that happened first. It is unreasonable for Jesus to have allowed Mary to touch him in Matthew’s story because it happened first, and then prevented her from touching him in John’s story because the priest wanted to suggest that it happened after Matthew’s story. It would have been better for him, if he was a professional liar, to reverse it.

Second:
Both Matthew’s and John’s accounts talk about the same situation, not a different situation, which is the first meeting after the resurrection between Jesus and Magdalene.
Let us review Matthew’s story,
Matthew 28:1. After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.
Matthew 28:2: And behold, there was a great earthquake , for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it.
Matthew 28:3 His appearance was like lightning , and his clothing was white as snow.
Matthew 28:4 The guards trembled for fear of him and became like dead men.
Matthew 28:5 But the angel answered and said to the women, “Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who was crucified.
Matthew 28:6 He is not here, for he has risen, just as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
Matthew 28:7 And go quickly, tell his disciples, ‘He has risen from the dead . Behold, he is going before you into Galilee; there you will see him.’I told you.
Matthew 28:8: And they ran out of the tomb with fear and great joy , and ran to tell his disciples.
Matthew 28:9: And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them and said, “Peace be with you!” And they came and took hold of his feet and worshipped him.
Matthew 28:10: And Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go tell my brothers to go to Galilee, and there they will see me.”
Commentary:
It is very clear here that this is the first meeting between Mary and Jesus. Here is Mary Magdalene going to the tomb at dawn to witness the earthquake, the angel’s rising, and the moving of the stone, then speaking with the angel (without seeing Jesus coming out of the tomb), then she hurries with fear and great joy (meaning there is no crying near the tomb) to tell the disciples, and Jesus appears to her immediately at the tomb (not in Galilee), and allows her to touch his feet. The important thing is that there is no doubt that this is the first meeting.

Then we review the story of John:
John 20:1 And on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw the stone taken away from the tomb.
John 20:2 And she ran and came to Simon Peter and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “ They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him .”
John 20:3 Then Peter went out and the other disciple and came to the tomb.
John 20:4 And they both ran together. And the other disciple ran after Peter and came to the tomb first.
John 20:5 And he stooped down and saw the linen cloths lying, but did not go in.
John 20:6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb and saw the linen cloths lying.
John 20:7 And the napkin that had been on his head was not lying with the linen cloths, but rolled up in a place by itself.
John 20:8 Then the other disciple, who came to the tomb first, went in also, and he saw and believed.
John 20:9 For as yet they did not know the Scripture, that he must rise from the dead.
John 20:10 And the disciples also departed to their own place.
Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene
John 20:11 But Mary stood outside the tomb weeping. And as she wept, she stooped down and looked into the tomb.
John 20:12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
John 20:13 And they said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
John 20:14 And when she had said this, she turned herself back and saw Jesus standing, and did not know that it was Jesus .
John 20:15 Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you looking for?” She, supposing him to be the gardener, said to him, “Lord, if you have borne him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”
John 20:16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher).
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “ Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to my Father . But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
John 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had said these things to her.
Commentary:
Here we find that Mary did not speak about an earthquake or the descent of the angel of the Lord, but rather she found the stone lifted from the tomb, contrary to her testimony in Matthew, so she hurried to tell Peter, thinking that someone had stolen Jesus’ body, so she sat crying outside the tomb, and then she saw two angels, not one, and the conversation with them was different from what is in Matthew, then Jesus suddenly jumped into the scene as if he was disguised as a gardener (why?) So that she did not recognize him at first (??), but she recognized him when he mentioned her name, meaning that this was the first meeting between them according to John’s account, and here she did not prostrate herself before him and touch his feet because he forbade her from doing so. So where is the truth, priest? The two

accounts speak of the same situation, but there is a strong difference between them, and it is not as the priest claims that the two accounts are different.
Third:
We come to the interpretation of Saint Augustine:
He said in his explanation, “Do not touch me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father,” meaning do not approach me with this thought, in which you say, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him” (John 20:2, 13, 15), as if I had not risen, and they had stolen my body according to the false rumors of the Jews.
Because I have not yet ascended to the (level) of my Father in your thought.
Commentary:
Apart from this very strange interpretation, why, when Mary was certain of the resurrection of Jesus as Matthew does, would she have such a thought that Jesus prevented her from touching Him? Then the saint concludes his explanation with the strange word (because I have not yet ascended to the (level) of my Father in your thought), and we say to him, when did Mary ascend with Jesus to the level of the Father in her thought?
If Mary touched him in a previous visit (Matthew 28), according to the priest, why did she say to Jesus, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him,” as if she were talking about a corpse,
even though according to the priest she was certain of his resurrection and touched him and bowed down to him? This means that she had raised Jesus to the level of the Father in her thought, so why the regression in thought?

In the priest’s words:
“ He is your God in that He created you from nothing.
And as for me, in terms of human nature, since I took the form of a servant in the likeness of men, and became in appearance like a man.” The response : The priest wants to say that the Father is the God of Christ in terms of his human nature (his humanity), and here the priest is forced to contradict one of the principles of his doctrine, because the principle for him is that Christ has one nature, which is the incarnate God. They are complete God and complete man with one nature, so how can he say that Christ said (my God) according to his human nature? Isn’t he also a incarnate God? So how can he call on another God? Which means that the priest knows that humanity is not God in itself, and thus he enters a terrifying tunnel to lead to the conclusion that humanity that was crucified, which is a purely human being, is not fit to be a redemption for humanity. In other words, when Christ speaks, saying for example: “Whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery,” who is speaking here? Is it the divinity or the humanity? The priest will quickly rebuke me by saying: “Christ has only one nature, which is that he is God incarnate, so do not say his divinity or his humanity.” Well, why here do you say that the one who says “my God” is humanity? And when Christ took the form of a servant, as the priest says, was he a servant god or was he just a servant? In the priest’s words:“ Ascension does not pertain to theology at all, because God neither ascends nor descends, because He fills everything and is present everywhere.” The answer :










It seems that the priest is a pantheist!!
It is stated in the Book of Genesis:

Genesis 11:5: And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men were building.
We ask the priest:
Where did the Lord come down?
Anthony Fikry’s interpretation says:
Verse 5:
“And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men were building.” So
the Lord came down: God is present everywhere and His saying “He came down” is not understood literally but its meaning is: -
He came down indicates how lowly their thinking is, so God’s coming down means that He humbles Himself to see their lowly work.

Comment:
The interpreter says: “ He came down indicates how lowly His thinking is.”
O priest, he is supposed to be the one who said “So the Lord came down,” isn’t it the Bible? Meaning the Lord Himself? So how do you describe this statement as lowly thinking?
If the narrator of this story is the writer of the book himself, then you have the right to describe his statement as lowly thinking, but if you believe that this is the word of the Lord, then this is not right for you!
Exodus

20:20: Then Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid, for God has come to test you and that the fear of Him may be before your faces, so that you will not sin.”
Exodus 20:21: So the people stood afar off, but Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.
Exodus 20:22: And the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘ You have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven. ’

Comment:
The Bible says that the people stood far away while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was!!
How does this agree with the theory that God is everywhere, pastor?
The Bible also says that the Lord said, “I have spoken to you from heaven.”

Why does the Lord say that He spoke to them from heaven if He is everywhere?

And in Deuteronomy:
Deuteronomy 4:35: You have been shown, that you may know that the Lord is God. There is no other besides Him.
Deuteronomy 4:36: From heaven He made you hear His voice to warn you, and on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words from the midst of the fire.
Why did He make you hear His voice from heaven specifically and not from afar, for example, or from everywhere?
Deuteronomy 26:15: Look out from Your holy dwelling place, from heaven, and bless Your people Israel, and the land which You have given us, as You swore to our fathers, a land flowing with milk and honey.
Why did the Bible not say, ‘Look out from Your holy dwelling place which is everywhere’?
And in the Book of Samuel : 2:

10-22 He bowed the heavens, and from them He descended, and thick darkness was under His feet.
Where did the Lord come down, O priest?
From the first book of Kings:
1 Kings 8:32: Then hear in heaven , and act, and judge your servants, when you condemn the wicked, to make his way upon his own head, and to justify the righteous, giving him according to his righteousness.
1 Kings 8:36: Then hear in heaven, and forgive the sin of your servants, and of your people Israel, and teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and send rain upon your land, which you have given to your people for an inheritance.

How did Solomon describe the Lord? ( Then hear in heaven )
1 Kings 8:49: Then hear in heaven, your dwelling place, their prayer and their supplication, and execute their cause,
Where does the Lord dwell? (Heaven is your dwelling place)
In the Book of Nehemiah:
Nehemiah 9:13: And you came down on Mount Sinai and spoke to them from heaven and gave them upright judgments and true laws, statutes and good commandments.
Nehemiah 9:27: So you gave them into the hand of their oppressors, and they oppressed them. And in the time of their distress they cried to you, and you heard from heaven, and according to your great mercies you gave them saviors who saved them from the hand of their oppressors.
In the Book of Job:
Job 22:12: “ Behold, God is in the height of the heavens . And behold the head of the stars, what is above.
Job 22:13: Then I said, How does God know? Does He judge from behind the thick darkness?
Job 22:14: The clouds are His cover, so He cannot be seen, and He walks in the circle of heaven.

What more do you want, pastor?
Then the New Testament has the Book of Revelation, which has many heavenly scenes that do not support the idea that the Lord is present everywhere.
Finally, remember:
And there are three who bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Have you forgotten? Or do you know that this is an extraneous addition to the text ?