Mecca in Bible, a response
Our Christian colleagues often surprise us with the fact that the Mecca mentioned in the Old Testament has no connection to Mecca, which witnessed the mission of the Master of Mankind, Muhammad, may God bless him and grant him peace. When we read the words of their commentators, we find that they do not cease to deceive and confuse regarding the meaning of Mecca. Their commentaries are sometimes mercurial, and
other times acrobatic spiral, dominated by doubt and conjecture. Here is a simple example:
* Translation : The Valley of Mecca: probably - it is a valley on the road to Jerusalem.
What these people and those who revolve around them have forgotten is that the sun of truth cannot be hidden by a sieve..!
We read in the book:
Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World
Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World
Patricia Crone,Michael A. Cook
Page: 22
According to the Samaritan-Aramaic text known as "Asatri" the sons of Nebaioth ( Nebaioth was the firstborn of our master Ishmael, peace be upon him ) built Mecca , the Bakkah mentioned in this text is read as Bakkah in the Hebrew-Samari text and is a clear reference to the place mentioned in the Qur'an as Bakkah ( Mecca ), and the context of the text also links it to the death of Ishmael. http://books.google.nl/books?id=Ta08...0bakka&f=false
Page: 22
According to the Samaritan-Aramaic text known as "Asatri" the sons of Nebaioth ( Nebaioth was the firstborn of our master Ishmael, peace be upon him ) built Mecca , the Bakkah mentioned in this text is read as Bakkah in the Hebrew-Samari text and is a clear reference to the place mentioned in the Qur'an as Bakkah ( Mecca ), and the context of the text also links it to the death of Ishmael. http://books.google.nl/books?id=Ta08...0bakka&f=false
Regarding the meaning of Baca, we read in the dictionary of the Christian Holy Book:
The Unger's Bible Dictionary
http://books.google.nl/books?id=xnjYp_qJNjEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=unger+'s+bible+ dictionary&hl=it&sa=X&ei=GgLWUe69MpOrhQeW4oDQCg&ved=0CDUQ6AE wAA
Translation:
Bakkah : Balsam tree or weeping unspecified
valley in Palestine (Psalms 84:6)
It is probably a poetic name inspired by imagination ,
Frankly, I am surprised,
when the dictionaries of your Holy Book talk about (Bakkah), you start to flounder ..!
And in order to find a way out of this predicament, do not hesitate to describe (Bakkah) as "just an idea that carries a deep meaning" or "a poetic name inspired by imagination"
Bakkah = a poetic name inspired by imagination, strange thing ...!
By the way, I recall the words of Rabbi "Ron Shaya" in which he said:
" The names in the Old Testament cannot have been mentioned arbitrarily and by chance " ..!
We will try to stop a little at the meaning of Bakkah mentioned in the text of Psalm 84:6
Bakkah = the balm tree, the weeping tree.
Bakkah Valley = the valley of the weeping tree Some
Christian websites often explain the meaning of Bakkah (the weeping tree) and link it to Mecca , and in doing so they undermine the words of our esteemed guest above.
As the honorable follower sees, all the dictionaries of the Holy Bible try to cover up the truth of (Bakkah) through words that are mostly filled with doubt and suspicion....!
We note by the way that the Ishmaelites were famous for trading in the balsam tree mentioned above:
Who are the Ishmaelites??? The answer is from the Takla website. The Ishmaelites | The Ishmaelites are the descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham, from his Egyptian slave Hagar. It was mentioned in Genesis 17:20 and 25:12-16 that Ishmael had twelve sons who became princes and heads of tribes. These tribes inhabited the northern part of the Arabian Peninsula on the borders of Palestine and Mesopotamia (Genesis 25:18). The Ishmaelites were known as the most important nomadic traders who moved from one place to another (Gen. 37:25-28) and were also known for their skill in driving camels (1 Chronicles 27:30) and their dwelling in tents (Ps. 83:6) and their skill in using the bow (Is. 21:17). Sometimes the name Ishmaelites is used to refer to the nomadic tribes that inhabited the north of the Arabian Peninsula, and so the Midianites are called Ishmaelites (Gen. 37:25, 28). Most of these tribes were nomads, but some of them settled and established independent kingdoms such as the Nabataeans, the Palmyrans (inhabitants of Palmyra or Palmyra), the Ghassanids or (Banu Ghassan) and the Lakhmids or (Banu Lakhm). All Arabs today trace their lineage back to Ishmael and consider him their great-grandfather. http://st-takla.org/Full-Free-Coptic...1_A/A_260.html
Since you claim, our honorable guest, that our master Abraham has no connection to Mecca, how do you explain that the lineage of Quraysh goes back to this great prophet???
Islam And Its Founder
JWH Stobart
page: 27
https://archive.org/stream/islamitsf...ge/26/mode/2up
We also read in the book:
Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World
According to the Samaritan Aramaic text known as asatir, the sons of Nebaioth (Nebaioth is the firstborn of our master Ishmael, peace be upon him) are the ones who built Mecca. The Bakka mentioned in this text is read as Bakkah in the Hebrew Samaritan text, and it is a clear reference to the place mentioned in the Quran as Bakka (Mecca).
The context of the text also links it to the death of Ishmael
http://books.google.nl/books?id=Ta08AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA22&dq=is+a+clear+reference+to+the +place+we+know+from+the+quran+as+bakka&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=is3AUfz QOKX80QXH_ICgCw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=is a clear reference to the place we know from the quran as bakka&f=false
A question for the honorable guest:
Do you know of a mountain where all peoples gather to pray despite their differences? Ethnicities and races???
I mean, he has Mexicans, Arabs, Berbers, Europeans, Asians, etc.
I await your fair answer....
How does the word "Bkah" have no relation to the text or the dialogue???
This is the word as it appears in the text of Psalms 84:6 , and the explanation I provided is for the word itself and from a reliable Christian source.
Q This letter, our honorable guest, is not a ha’, but rather “ quf ” => Q
is this letter “hi” ======= > ha’
Since Becca is a name, as you say, dear guest,
is it permissible to translate the names?
Why didn’t the Arabic translations use the name like this:
בְּעֵמֶק הַבָּכָא = Wadi Baka
(Wadi Baka and not Wadi al-Baka).
Please note, dear, that the English translations have written the name in capital letters.
King James Version:
6. {cf15I Who} passing through the valley of B aca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. New
International Version (NIV)
6. As they pass through the Valley of B aca , they make it a place of springs ; the early rain also covers it with pools.
English Standard Version: ESV Is it permissible, for example, to translate a proper noun such as: Muhammad M ohamed?
It is also strange that the word "Bakkah" was mentioned in the Quran only once and there is no evidence that the "Bakkah" in the Quran is the current "Mecca"...!!!
From this we may conclude that the "Bakkah" mentioned in the Quran may have been referring to a region completely different from "Mecca".
Dear guest,
here is the evidence that “Bakkah” mentioned in the Holy Quran is the same as “Makkah Al-Mukarramah” and it is the same as “Bakkah”
( the source is not Islamic, of course )
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not very far from Palestine, especially if our mother Hajar had moved from Canaan to the Arabian Peninsula via the Gulf of Aqaba. * I have drawn our mother Hajar’s possible path with dotted red lines : Of course, I do not rule out that our mother Hajar took a coastal route on her journey in search of the moisture of the sea and to escape the blazing heat of the desert. Of course, this route would not have been deserted because there were some fishing villages where one could stock up on water and food. And God knows best.
We read in Isaiah 56:7
I will bring them to My holy mountain, and will make them glad in My house of prayer; and their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable upon My altar, for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
What is the name of this holy mountain, I wonder? And where is it located?
John 4:19 The woman said to him, “Lord, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship .” 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem worship the Father. ” Jesus, peace be upon him, prophesied that the place of worship would be moved to another place. What is the name of that place???? It won't be Jerusalem of course...!
The word Bakkah in the text of Psalm 84:6 that I mentioned does not lack the letter ha.
The letter "Hi" " Ha" before the name "Bakkah" takes the place of the definite article "al" in the Arabic language.
Thus the meaning is:
עֵמֶק הַבָּכָא = Valley of Bakkah .
So what is this "Bakkah"???
What is this "Baka"????
It is the balsam tree, as the Takla website says. For more information: "Baka" is the valley of the balsam tree ( meaning a place ):
Another proof that "Baka" is a place =====> location
Where is the valley where the balsam or weeping tree is abundant?
The Takla website identified
two places where this type of tree is abundant:
1- Wadi al-Rifain 2- Mecca ==== ... http://st-takla.org/Full-Free-Coptic-Books/FreeCopticBooks-002-Holy-Arabic-Bible-Dictionary/13_SH/SH_054.html The characteristics of Wadi al-Bakka: 1- A dry and barren place. 2- Pilgrims go to Wadi al-Rafe’in, which the Takla website tried to divert attention to in order to cover up the original place, is an exceptionally fertile place , meaning that it does not meet the characteristics of a barren valley where bakka/balsam trees abound, in addition to the fact that it is not a place that pilgrims go to. Of course, no one knows where Wadi al-Rafe’in is located exactly....! Always the same phrases: it is thought, we believe, it is likely, etc. Excluding the Valley of Rafah (Palestine), all that remains is Mecca in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It is the only place that meets the specifications mentioned in the Holy Book and in the approved Christian interpretations: a barren (dry) valley + pilgrims visit it + balsam trees abound . Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds.
Psalm 84:6 Jesus translation
When they pass through the valley of balsam , they make it springs of water, and the first rains shower them with blessings.
Psalm 84:6 Good news translation:
They pass through the valley of drought
, and make it springs of water, and the rain showers shower them with blessings. Psalm 84:6 Life translation:
When they pass through the dry valley of weeping, they make it springs of water, and the autumn rain showers shower them with blessings
. The Holy Bible bears witness to itself, gentlemen!
"The Valley of Weeping" is the valley of balsam trees , and it is a barren, dry valley ..!
New evidence that the intended meaning is not the fertile
"Valley of Raphael" , but rather the honored Mecca
A Jewish Rabbi explains the close relationship between the descendants of the Prophet Abraham, peace be upon him, and the honorable Mecca.
No consolation for the thieves of religions and the highwaymen of false Sharia!
https://archive.org/details/RabbiReuvenFirestoneMeccaAndArabiaInOt
Psalm 84:
How lovely are your dwelling places, O LORD of hosts! My soul longs, yea, faints,
for the house of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for
joy to the living God . Even
the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young. Your altars, O LORD of hosts, my King and my God. Blessed are
those who dwell in your house; they will praise you forever. Selah.
Blessed are those whose pride is in You. The paths to Your House are in their hearts.
Passing through the Valley of Weeping , they make it a spring . As the honorable follower will notice, the birds and sparrows have taken the Sacred House as their home. * Note: The photo is old
Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World
Patricia Crone,Michael A. Cook
Page: 22
Page: 22
According to the Samaritan Aramaic text known as asatir, the sons of Nebaioth (Nebaioth is the firstborn of our master Ishmael, peace be upon him) are the ones who built Mecca. The Bakka mentioned in this text is read as Bakkah in the Hebrew Samaritan text, and it is a clear reference to the place mentioned in the Quran as Bakka (Mecca).
The context of the text also links it to the death of Ishmael
http://books.google.nl/books?id=Ta08AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA22&dq=is+a+clear+reference+to+the +place+we+know+from+the+quran+as+bakka&hl=fr&sa=X&ei=is3AUfz QOKX80QXH_ICgCw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=is a clear reference to the place we know from the quran as bakka&f=false
A question for the honorable guest:
Do you know of a mountain where all peoples gather to pray despite their differences? Ethnicities and races???
I mean, he has Mexicans, Arabs, Berbers, Europeans, Asians, etc.
I await your fair answer....
ive already given you proof of how Prophet Muhammad is from the lineage of Abraham (in discord n in kufrcleaner library)
How does the word "Bkah" have no relation to the text or the dialogue???
This is the word as it appears in the text of Psalms 84:6 , and the explanation I provided is for the word itself and from a reliable Christian source.
the word "Ba'amka " = Mecca???
Dear guest, the word "Ba'amka " (in depth) means valley. Here is the proof:
Dear guest, the word "Ba'amka " (in depth) means valley. Here is the proof:
quote
The letter of disagreement = ק (the unpointed ha)
Q This letter, our honorable guest, is not a ha’, but rather “ quf ” => Q
is this letter “hi” ======= > ha’
quote
Since “Bakkah” is a name and “Makkah”
, we are not allowed to say “Allah” once and “Allah” another time.
, we are not allowed to say “Allah” once and “Allah” another time.
Since Becca is a name, as you say, dear guest,
is it permissible to translate the names?
Why didn’t the Arabic translations use the name like this:
בְּעֵמֶק הַבָּכָא = Wadi Baka
(Wadi Baka and not Wadi al-Baka).
Please note, dear, that the English translations have written the name in capital letters.
King James Version:
6. {cf15I Who} passing through the valley of B aca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. New
International Version (NIV)
6. As they pass through the Valley of B aca , they make it a place of springs ; the early rain also covers it with pools.
English Standard Version: ESV Is it permissible, for example, to translate a proper noun such as: Muhammad M ohamed?
quote
It is also strange that the word "Bakkah" was mentioned in the Quran only once and there is no evidence that the "Bakkah" in the Quran is the current "Mecca"...!!!
From this we may conclude that the "Bakkah" mentioned in the Quran may have been referring to a region completely different from "Mecca".
Dear guest,
here is the evidence that “Bakkah” mentioned in the Holy Quran is the same as “Makkah Al-Mukarramah” and it is the same as “Bakkah”
( the source is not Islamic, of course )
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not very far from Palestine, especially if our mother Hajar had moved from Canaan to the Arabian Peninsula via the Gulf of Aqaba. * I have drawn our mother Hajar’s possible path with dotted red lines : Of course, I do not rule out that our mother Hajar took a coastal route on her journey in search of the moisture of the sea and to escape the blazing heat of the desert. Of course, this route would not have been deserted because there were some fishing villages where one could stock up on water and food. And God knows best.
quote
Believe me, my dear brother, your question is not clear to me.
We read in Isaiah 56:7
I will bring them to My holy mountain, and will make them glad in My house of prayer; and their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable upon My altar, for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
What is the name of this holy mountain, I wonder? And where is it located?
quote
If you searched on the Internet for the place where the Jews and all those who believed in God before Islam prayed, you would find that all the search results would tell you “Solomon’s Temple in Jerusalem.”
John 4:19 The woman said to him, “Lord, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship .” 21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem worship the Father. ” Jesus, peace be upon him, prophesied that the place of worship would be moved to another place. What is the name of that place???? It won't be Jerusalem of course...!
quote
All your responses and contributions are logical, objective and purposeful - except for one part only, which is the word "Baka" which you mentioned in Hebrew but it is missing the letter "H" which makes its meaning in the form you mentioned "mourning" especially since if a letter is missing in the Hebrew language the meaning of the word changes completely.
The word Bakkah in the text of Psalm 84:6 that I mentioned does not lack the letter ha.
The letter "Hi" " Ha" before the name "Bakkah" takes the place of the definite article "al" in the Arabic language.
Thus the meaning is:
עֵמֶק הַבָּכָא = Valley of Bakkah .
So what is this "Bakkah"???
What is this "Baka"????
It is the balsam tree, as the Takla website says. For more information: "Baka" is the valley of the balsam tree ( meaning a place ):
Another proof that "Baka" is a place =====> location
Where is the valley where the balsam or weeping tree is abundant?
The Takla website identified
two places where this type of tree is abundant:
1- Wadi al-Rifain 2- Mecca ==== ... http://st-takla.org/Full-Free-Coptic-Books/FreeCopticBooks-002-Holy-Arabic-Bible-Dictionary/13_SH/SH_054.html The characteristics of Wadi al-Bakka: 1- A dry and barren place. 2- Pilgrims go to Wadi al-Rafe’in, which the Takla website tried to divert attention to in order to cover up the original place, is an exceptionally fertile place , meaning that it does not meet the characteristics of a barren valley where bakka/balsam trees abound, in addition to the fact that it is not a place that pilgrims go to. Of course, no one knows where Wadi al-Rafe’in is located exactly....! Always the same phrases: it is thought, we believe, it is likely, etc. Excluding the Valley of Rafah (Palestine), all that remains is Mecca in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It is the only place that meets the specifications mentioned in the Holy Book and in the approved Christian interpretations: a barren (dry) valley + pilgrims visit it + balsam trees abound . Praise be to God, Lord of the Worlds.
Psalm 84:6 Jesus translation
When they pass through the valley of balsam , they make it springs of water, and the first rains shower them with blessings.
Psalm 84:6 Good news translation:
They pass through the valley of drought
, and make it springs of water, and the rain showers shower them with blessings. Psalm 84:6 Life translation:
When they pass through the dry valley of weeping, they make it springs of water, and the autumn rain showers shower them with blessings
. The Holy Bible bears witness to itself, gentlemen!
"The Valley of Weeping" is the valley of balsam trees , and it is a barren, dry valley ..!
New evidence that the intended meaning is not the fertile
"Valley of Raphael" , but rather the honored Mecca
A Jewish Rabbi explains the close relationship between the descendants of the Prophet Abraham, peace be upon him, and the honorable Mecca.
No consolation for the thieves of religions and the highwaymen of false Sharia!
https://archive.org/details/RabbiReuvenFirestoneMeccaAndArabiaInOt
Psalm 84:
How lovely are your dwelling places, O LORD of hosts! My soul longs, yea, faints,
for the house of the LORD; my heart and my flesh cry out for
joy to the living God . Even
the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young. Your altars, O LORD of hosts, my King and my God. Blessed are
those who dwell in your house; they will praise you forever. Selah.
Blessed are those whose pride is in You. The paths to Your House are in their hearts.
Passing through the Valley of Weeping , they make it a spring . As the honorable follower will notice, the birds and sparrows have taken the Sacred House as their home. * Note: The photo is old
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